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InläggPostat: mån jun 04, 2012 9:47 pm 
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Topplocks-guru

Blev medlem: mån okt 15, 2007 10:00 pm
Inlägg: 5676
Ort: Lund
norrback skrev:
Som sug motor ger den bättre effekt med en kanal som på minsta stället är 33mm sen konar åt båda hållen.

Med 3 bar laddtryck kan du öka arean så du ligger på 285 fps istället för 310 fps.

Jens, förklara varför din motor ger mera effekt med 38mm minsta area än med 33mm minsta area... med samma flöde altså 185cfm.

Det är viktigast att man använder motorns cfm_demand inte piston_cfm_demand när man mäter och gör toppar i flödesbänk, inte max flöde.

Ett exempel:

Sugmotor Ford OHC ( såna som finns i taunus å sierra tex.) i Knuts escort. 2.4 liter 48/40 ventiler. 90% säte, toppen flödar 234 cfm på 14,5mm. Den har plastad kanal ända upp i insuget, kanalen är som minst 1200mm2. Motorn ger 250hk. 11.45/185 på 402m.

Så denna motor skulle bli bättre med större kanal???

/Andre'



Ja helt klart. Jag får det till 301 fps, alldeles för fort.
Dragracing, prova 260 fps istället.

Erland


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InläggPostat: mån jun 04, 2012 10:02 pm 
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Blev medlem: mån okt 15, 2007 10:00 pm
Inlägg: 5676
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På den här B20 motorn om det är 92 i cylinderdiameter är kammens lyft och insugningsventilens diameter en begränsning.
Max effekt hamnar runt 6800 varv och blir lite över 200 hästar.

Insugningskanalens minsta area: 260 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.680 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Recommended Port CSA
Motsvarar 37mm runt hål. Ventilfönstret stryper så större kanal är inte lönt.


Avgasportens minsta area: 250 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.382 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Recommended Port CSA
Motsvarar 33.7mm runt hål.

En 4 ventils cross eller banracingcykel skulle jag köra 285 fps på men aldrig över det.
Testa dina teorier i bänken Andre' så ska du se att du tjänar på att gå upp i area.
Börja med 300fps eller vad du kör och ta upp lite bromsa och se.

Erland


129.682 Cubic Inches @ 6800 RPM with 110.00 % Volumetric Efficiency PerCent

Required Intake Flow between 182.1 CFM and 191.8 CFM at 28 Inches
Required Exhaust Flow between 137.4 CFM and 150.5 CFM at 28 Inches

600 RPM/Sec Dyno Test Lowest Low Average Best
Peak HorsePower 192.9 200.8 204.8 208.8
Peak Torque Lbs-Ft 165.2 172.0 175.4 178.8

HorsePower per CID 1.487 1.549 1.579 1.610
Torque per Cubic Inch 1.274 1.326 1.352 1.378

BMEP in psi 192.1 200.0 203.9 207.9
Carb CFM at 1.5 in Hg. 281 312 328 344

Target EGT= 1254 degrees F at end of 4 second 600 RPM/Sec Dyno accel. test
Octane (R+M)/2 Method = 106.3 to 106.8 Octane required range
Air Standard Efficiency = 63.53699 % for 12.000:1 Compression Ratio

Peak HorsePower calculated from Cylinder Head Flow CFM only
600 RPM/Sec Dyno Test Lowest Average Best Potential
Head Flow Peak HP = 193.1 213.0 233.0

----- Engine Design Specifications -----
( English Units ) ( per each Valve Sq.Inch area )
Engine Size CID = 129.682 Intake Valve Net Area = 2.496
CID per Cylinder = 32.420 Intake Valve Dia. Area = 2.573
Rod/Stroke Ratio = 1.810 Intake Valve Stem Area = 0.077
Bore/Stroke Ratio = 1.149 Exhaust Valve Net Area = 1.681
Int Valve/Bore Ratio = 0.500 Exhaust Valve Dia. Area = 1.758
Exh Valve/Bore Ratio = 0.413 Exhaust Valve Stem Area = 0.077
Exh/Int Valve Ratio = 0.827 Exh/Int Valve Area Ratio = 0.683
Intake Valve L/D Ratio= .270 Exhaust Valve L/D Ratio= .326
CFM/Sq.Inch = 70.8 to 74.5 CFM/Sq.Inch =78.2 to 85.6
Curtain Area -to- Valve Area Convergence Intake Valve Lift inch= .452
Curtain Area -to- Valve Area Convergence Exhaust Valve Lift inch= .374


Intake Valve Margin CC's Exhaust Valve Margin CC's
1.00 CC = 0.0237 1.00 CC = 0.0347
0.50 CC = 0.0119 0.50 CC = 0.0174
0.25 CC = 0.0059 0.25 CC = 0.0087
0.10 CC = 0.0024 0.10 CC = 0.0035

------- Piston Motion Data -------
Average Piston Speed (FPM)= 3570.00 in Feet Per Minute
Maximum Piston Speed (FPM)= 5818.87 occurs at 75.543 Degrees ATDC
Piston Depth at 75.543 degree ATDC= 1.3896 inches Cylinder Volume= 234.4 CC
Maximum TDC Rod Tension GForce= 2640.11 G's
Maximum BDC Rod Compression GForce= 1496.97 G's


------- Current Camshaft Specs @ .050 -------

IntOpen= 29.00 IntClose= 57.00 ExhOpen= 55.50 ExhClose= 19.50
Intake Duration @ .050 = 266.00 Exhaust Duration @ .050 = 255.00
Intake CenterLine = 104.00 Exhaust CenterLine = 108.00
Compression Duration= 123.00 Power Duration = 124.50
OverLap Duration = 48.50 Lobe Center Angle (LCA)= 106.00
Camshaft Advanced = 2.00 degrees

-Recommended Camshaft Valve Lift-
Minimum Normal Maximum
Intake = 0.488 0.526 0.578
Exhaust = 0.468 0.504 0.555
Max-effort Intake Lift = 0.606
Max-effort Exhaust Lift = 0.581
Minimum Intake Valve Lift to prevent Choke = .526 Lift @ 6800 RPM
Minimum Exhaust Valve Lift to prevent Choke = .504 Lift @ 6800 RPM


- Induction System Tuned Lengths - ( Cylinder Head Port + Manifold Runner )
1st Harmonic= 34.523 (usually this Length is never used)
2nd Harmonic= 19.594 (some Sprint Engines and Factory OEM's w/Injectors)
3rd Harmonic= 13.679 (ProStock or Comp SheetMetal Intake)
4th Harmonic= 10.767 (Single-plane Intakes , less Torque)
5th Harmonic= 8.736 (Torque is reduced, even though Tuned Length)
6th Harmonic= 7.349 (Torque is reduced, even though Tuned Length)
7th Harmonic= 6.343 (Torque is greatly reduced, even though Tuned Length)
8th Harmonic= 5.579 (Torque is greatly reduced, even though Tuned Length)
Note> 2nd and 3rd Harmonics typically create the most Peak Torque
4th Harmonic is used to package Induction System underneath Hood

Plenum Runner Minimum Recommended Entry Area = 1.942 to 2.185 Sq.Inch
Plenum Runner Average Recommended Entry Area = 2.233 Sq.Inch
Plenum Runner Maximum Recommended Entry Area = 2.281 to 2.699 Sq.Inch

Minimum Plenum Volume CC = 337.2 [typically for Single-Plane Intakes]
Minimum Plenum Volume CID= 20.6 [typically for Single-Plane Intakes]
Maximum Plenum Volume CC = 2125.1 [typically for Tunnel Ram Intakes]
Maximum Plenum Volume CID= 129.7 [typically for Tunnel Ram Intakes]


------- Operating RPM Ranges of various Components -------

Camshaft Intake Lobe RPM = 6490 Exhaust Lobe RPM = 5897
Camshaft's Intake and Exhaust Lobes operating RPM range = 4342 to 6342
Note=> Lobe RPMs are only BallPark estimations

Minimum Intake Valve Lift to prevent Choke = .526 Lift @ 6800 RPM
Minimum Exhaust Valve Lift to prevent Choke = .504 Lift @ 6800 RPM

Current (Intake Valve Curtain Area -VS- Time) Choke RPM = 6314 RPM
Current (Exhaust Valve Curtain Area -VS- Time) Choke RPM = 6578 RPM

Intake Valve Area + Curtain Area operating RPM Range = 4574 to 6574 RPM

Intake Valve Diameter RPM Range = 4314 to 6314

Intake Flow CFM @28in RPM Range = 4866 to 6866
___________________________________________________________________________

Best estimate RPM operating range from all Components = 4800 to 6800

Note=>The BEST Engine Combo will have all Component's RPM Ranges coinciding
___________________________________________________________________________


--- Cross-Sectional Areas at various Intake Port Velocities (@ 28 in.) ---
157 FPS at Intake Valve Curtain Area= 2.775 sq.in. at .488 Lift
170 FPS at Intake Valve OD Area and at Convergence Lift = .452
210 FPS 90% PerCent Rule Seat-Throat Velocity CSA= 2.084 sq.in. at 6800 RPM
350 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.247 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Port Sonic-Choke with HP Loss
330 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.324 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Port Sonic-Choke with HP Loss
311 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.405 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Smallest Useable Port CSA
300 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.456 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Recommended Smallest Port CSA
285 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.533 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Recommended Smallest Port CSA
260 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.680 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Recommended Port CSA
250 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.748 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Recommended Port CSA
240 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.821 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Largest Intake Port Entry CSA
220 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.986 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Largest Intake Port Entry CSA
210 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.081 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Torque Loss + Reversion
200 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.185 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Torque Loss + Reversion


--- Cross-Sectional Areas at various Exhaust Port Velocities (@ 28 in.) ---
151 FPS at Exhaust Valve Curtain Area= 2.294 sq.in. at .488 Lift
197 FPS at Exhaust Valve OD Area and at Convergence Lift = .374
243 FPS 90% PerCent Rule Seat-Throat Velocity CSA= 1.424 sq.in. at 6800 RPM
435 FPS Velocity CSA= 0.794 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Sonic Choke at Throat Area
350 FPS Velocity CSA= 0.986 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Port Sonic-Choke with HP Loss
330 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.047 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Port Sonic-Choke with HP Loss
311 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.111 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Smallest Useable Port CSA
300 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.152 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Recommended Smallest Port CSA
285 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.212 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Recommended Smallest Port CSA
250 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.382 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Recommended Port CSA
240 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.439 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Recommended Port CSA
225 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.535 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Largest Exhaust Port Exit CSA
210 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.645 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Largest Exhaust Port Exit CSA
190 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.818 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Torque Loss + Reversion
180 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.919 sq.in. at 6800 RPM Torque Loss + Reversion


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InläggPostat: mån jun 04, 2012 10:11 pm 
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Topplocks-guru

Blev medlem: mån okt 15, 2007 10:00 pm
Inlägg: 5676
Ort: Lund
Jens exempel med 16mm lyft, -0.4mm i spel.
Nu kan motorn varva 8000 utan att ligga på minimum required lift vilket ökar VE, jag har gått upp från 110 till 115%.
Nu krävs ett flöde mellan 227 och 240 cfm så det krävs nåt annat än en B20 stomme att porta på.

Minsta kanalarea in: 260 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.093 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Recommended Port CSA
Motsvarar 41.45mm runt hål, bra gissat Jens.

Minsta kanalarea ut: 250 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.721 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Recommended Port CSA
Motsvarar 37,6 mm runt hål.
Krävs alltså mer duration ut än in eftersom man inte kan uppnå minsta arean.

Erland



129.682 Cubic Inches @ 8000 RPM with 115.00 % Volumetric Efficiency PerCent

Required Intake Flow between 226.8 CFM and 239.4 CFM at 28 Inches
Required Exhaust Flow between 171.2 CFM and 187.4 CFM at 28 Inches

600 RPM/Sec Dyno Test Lowest Low Average Best
Peak HorsePower 248.1 258.3 263.4 268.5
Peak Torque Lbs-Ft 178.3 185.6 189.3 193.0

HorsePower per CID 1.913 1.992 2.031 2.070
Torque per Cubic Inch 1.375 1.431 1.460 1.488

BMEP in psi 207.3 215.8 220.1 224.4
Carb CFM at 1.5 in Hg. 345 384 404 423

Target EGT= 1233 degrees F at end of 4 second 600 RPM/Sec Dyno accel. test
Octane (R+M)/2 Method = 106.8 to 106.8 Octane required range
Air Standard Efficiency = 63.53699 % for 12.000:1 Compression Ratio

Peak HorsePower calculated from Cylinder Head Flow CFM only
600 RPM/Sec Dyno Test Lowest Average Best Potential
Head Flow Peak HP = 249.5 269.9 290.3

----- Engine Design Specifications -----
( English Units ) ( per each Valve Sq.Inch area )
Engine Size CID = 129.682 Intake Valve Net Area = 2.496
CID per Cylinder = 32.420 Intake Valve Dia. Area = 2.573
Rod/Stroke Ratio = 1.810 Intake Valve Stem Area = 0.077
Bore/Stroke Ratio = 1.149 Exhaust Valve Net Area = 1.681
Int Valve/Bore Ratio = 0.500 Exhaust Valve Dia. Area = 1.758
Exh Valve/Bore Ratio = 0.413 Exhaust Valve Stem Area = 0.077
Exh/Int Valve Ratio = 0.827 Exh/Int Valve Area Ratio = 0.683
Intake Valve L/D Ratio= .339 Exhaust Valve L/D Ratio= .410
CFM/Sq.Inch = 88.1 to 93.0 CFM/Sq.Inch =97.4 to 106.6
Curtain Area -to- Valve Area Convergence Intake Valve Lift inch= .452
Curtain Area -to- Valve Area Convergence Exhaust Valve Lift inch= .374


Intake Valve Margin CC's Exhaust Valve Margin CC's
1.00 CC = 0.0237 1.00 CC = 0.0347
0.50 CC = 0.0119 0.50 CC = 0.0174
0.25 CC = 0.0059 0.25 CC = 0.0087
0.10 CC = 0.0024 0.10 CC = 0.0035

------- Piston Motion Data -------
Average Piston Speed (FPM)= 4200.00 in Feet Per Minute
Maximum Piston Speed (FPM)= 6845.73 occurs at 75.543 Degrees ATDC
Piston Depth at 75.543 degree ATDC= 1.3896 inches Cylinder Volume= 234.4 CC
Maximum TDC Rod Tension GForce= 3654.13 G's
Maximum BDC Rod Compression GForce= 2071.93 G's


------- Current Camshaft Specs @ .050 -------

IntOpen= 29.00 IntClose= 57.00 ExhOpen= 55.50 ExhClose= 19.50
Intake Duration @ .050 = 266.00 Exhaust Duration @ .050 = 255.00
Intake CenterLine = 104.00 Exhaust CenterLine = 108.00
Compression Duration= 123.00 Power Duration = 124.50
OverLap Duration = 48.50 Lobe Center Angle (LCA)= 106.00
Camshaft Advanced = 2.00 degrees

-Recommended Camshaft Valve Lift-
Minimum Normal Maximum
Intake = 0.574 0.618 0.680
Exhaust = 0.551 0.593 0.653
Max-effort Intake Lift = 0.713
Max-effort Exhaust Lift = 0.684
Minimum Intake Valve Lift to prevent Choke = .618 Lift @ 8000 RPM
Minimum Exhaust Valve Lift to prevent Choke = .593 Lift @ 8000 RPM


- Induction System Tuned Lengths - ( Cylinder Head Port + Manifold Runner )
1st Harmonic= 29.508 (usually this Length is never used)
2nd Harmonic= 16.748 (some Sprint Engines and Factory OEM's w/Injectors)
3rd Harmonic= 11.692 (ProStock or Comp SheetMetal Intake)
4th Harmonic= 9.203 (Single-plane Intakes , less Torque)
5th Harmonic= 7.467 (Torque is reduced, even though Tuned Length)
6th Harmonic= 6.282 (Torque is reduced, even though Tuned Length)
7th Harmonic= 5.422 (Torque is greatly reduced, even though Tuned Length)
8th Harmonic= 4.768 (Torque is greatly reduced, even though Tuned Length)
Note> 2nd and 3rd Harmonics typically create the most Peak Torque
4th Harmonic is used to package Induction System underneath Hood

Plenum Runner Minimum Recommended Entry Area = 2.419 to 2.721 Sq.Inch
Plenum Runner Average Recommended Entry Area = 2.781 Sq.Inch
Plenum Runner Maximum Recommended Entry Area = 2.841 to 3.362 Sq.Inch

Minimum Plenum Volume CC = 396.7 [typically for Single-Plane Intakes]
Minimum Plenum Volume CID= 24.2 [typically for Single-Plane Intakes]
Maximum Plenum Volume CC = 2125.1 [typically for Tunnel Ram Intakes]
Maximum Plenum Volume CID= 129.7 [typically for Tunnel Ram Intakes]


------- Operating RPM Ranges of various Components -------

Camshaft Intake Lobe RPM = 7033 Exhaust Lobe RPM = 6440
Camshaft's Intake and Exhaust Lobes operating RPM range = 4885 to 6885
Note=> Lobe RPMs are only BallPark estimations

Minimum Intake Valve Lift to prevent Choke = .618 Lift @ 8000 RPM
Minimum Exhaust Valve Lift to prevent Choke = .593 Lift @ 8000 RPM

Current (Intake Valve Curtain Area -VS- Time) Choke RPM = 7944 RPM
Current (Exhaust Valve Curtain Area -VS- Time) Choke RPM = 8277 RPM

Intake Valve Area + Curtain Area operating RPM Range = 5755 to 7755 RPM

Intake Valve Diameter RPM Range = 5944 to 7944

Intake Flow CFM @28in RPM Range = 6180 to 8180
___________________________________________________________________________

Best estimate RPM operating range from all Components = 6087 to 8087

Note=>The BEST Engine Combo will have all Component's RPM Ranges coinciding
___________________________________________________________________________


--- Cross-Sectional Areas at various Intake Port Velocities (@ 28 in.) ---
156 FPS at Intake Valve Curtain Area= 3.491 sq.in. at .614 Lift
212 FPS at Intake Valve OD Area and at Convergence Lift = .452
261 FPS 90% PerCent Rule Seat-Throat Velocity CSA= 2.084 sq.in. at 8000 RPM
350 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.554 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Port Sonic-Choke with HP Loss
330 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.649 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Port Sonic-Choke with HP Loss
311 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.750 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Smallest Useable Port CSA
300 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.814 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Recommended Smallest Port CSA
285 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.910 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Recommended Smallest Port CSA
260 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.093 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Recommended Port CSA
250 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.177 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Recommended Port CSA
240 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.268 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Largest Intake Port Entry CSA
220 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.474 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Largest Intake Port Entry CSA
210 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.592 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Torque Loss + Reversion
200 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.721 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Torque Loss + Reversion


--- Cross-Sectional Areas at various Exhaust Port Velocities (@ 28 in.) ---
149 FPS at Exhaust Valve Curtain Area= 2.886 sq.in. at .614 Lift
245 FPS at Exhaust Valve OD Area and at Convergence Lift = .374
302 FPS 90% PerCent Rule Seat-Throat Velocity CSA= 1.424 sq.in. at 8000 RPM
435 FPS Velocity CSA= 0.989 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Sonic Choke at Throat Area
350 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.229 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Port Sonic-Choke with HP Loss
330 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.304 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Port Sonic-Choke with HP Loss
311 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.384 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Smallest Useable Port CSA
300 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.434 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Recommended Smallest Port CSA
285 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.510 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Recommended Smallest Port CSA
250 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.721 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Recommended Port CSA
240 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.793 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Recommended Port CSA
225 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.913 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Largest Exhaust Port Exit CSA
210 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.049 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Largest Exhaust Port Exit CSA
190 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.265 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Torque Loss + Reversion
180 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.391 sq.in. at 8000 RPM Torque Loss + Reversion


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InläggPostat: mån jun 04, 2012 10:20 pm 
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Sävar Turbo Racing
Användarvisningsbild

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tycker vi lika i dag erland :shock: vad ska jag skriva då? :)

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Köpes volvo B17 vevaxel eller motor

Jensas Speedshop
Den senapsgula 142an med B20 10.61sek/402m
B20 Vegan 5.92/185 9.50/225

Samarbetar med: KL Racing | Lube Tools | Willmans Däck | AGAP | VEMS


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InläggPostat: tis jun 05, 2012 12:27 am 
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Blev medlem: mån okt 15, 2007 10:00 pm
Inlägg: 5676
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Jippee!

Erland


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InläggPostat: tis jun 05, 2012 6:12 am 
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Blev medlem: ons nov 12, 2003 2:47 pm
Inlägg: 1986
Ort: Jeppo / Finland
Erland Cox skrev:

En 4 ventils cross eller banracingcykel skulle jag köra 285 fps på men aldrig över det.
Testa dina teorier i bänken Andre' så ska du se att du tjänar på att gå upp i area.
Börja med 300fps eller vad du kör och ta upp lite bromsa och se.

Erland


Om jag nån gång får tid/möjligheten att testa så skall jag göra det. Jag fått bra resultat med 310fps på 4 ventilare som man redan ligger väldigt högt på i BMEP och som blir bättre med över 300fps, både max effekt och max vrid och register. Beror det då på "fel" kammar och att det skulle bli ännu bättre med "rätt" kammar och större kanal låter jag vara osagt.

/Andre'

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InläggPostat: tis jun 05, 2012 9:09 pm 
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Blev medlem: mån okt 15, 2007 10:00 pm
Inlägg: 5676
Ort: Lund
Har du nåt exempel med storlek på motor ventilstorlekar och lyft så är det lätt att kolla.

Erland


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InläggPostat: ons jun 06, 2012 7:09 am 
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Blev medlem: ons nov 12, 2003 2:47 pm
Inlägg: 1986
Ort: Jeppo / Finland
1400cc
35/30
11mm/10.5mm

/Andre'

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InläggPostat: ons jun 06, 2012 7:19 pm 
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Blev medlem: mån okt 15, 2007 10:00 pm
Inlägg: 5676
Ort: Lund
Jag vet inte hur bra pipemax stämmer på 4 ventilare men med liteerfarenhet så vet man snabbt vilket lyft man ska gå på.
Jag gick på normal lift men man måste kanske använda maximum? Vid vilket varv ger den max effekt? Hur mycket?
Med 110% ger den 260 hästar och då ser areorna ut så här:

260 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.014 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Recommended Port CSA
Minsta area i 2 portar per cylinder motsvarande 28,75mm, 82% av ventildiametern.

250 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.731 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Recommended Port CSA
Minsta area per kanal motsvarar 26,66mm, 88,9% av ventilens diameter.

Erland




85.530 Cubic Inches @ 12500 RPM with 110.00 % Volumetric Efficiency PerCent

Required Intake Flow between 218.2 CFM and 230.3 CFM at 28 Inches
Required Exhaust Flow between 173.6 CFM and 187.0 CFM at 28 Inches

600 RPM/Sec Dyno Test Lowest Low Average Best
Peak HorsePower 244.3 254.4 259.4 264.4
Peak Torque Lbs-Ft 112.3 116.9 119.2 121.5

HorsePower per CID 2.857 2.974 3.033 3.092
Torque per Cubic Inch 1.312 1.366 1.393 1.420

BMEP in psi 197.9 206.1 210.1 214.2
Carb CFM at 1.5 in Hg. 340 379 398 417

Target EGT= 1216 degrees F at end of 4 second 600 RPM/Sec Dyno accel. test
Octane (R+M)/2 Method = 108.5 to 110.3 Octane required range
Air Standard Efficiency = 64.70290 % for 13.000:1 Compression Ratio

Peak HorsePower calculated from Cylinder Head Flow CFM only
600 RPM/Sec Dyno Test Lowest Average Best Potential
Head Flow Peak HP = 231.4 255.3 279.3

----- Engine Design Specifications -----
( English Units ) ( per each Valve Sq.Inch area )
Engine Size CID = 85.530 Intake Valve Net Area = 1.448
CID per Cylinder = 21.383 Intake Valve Dia. Area = 1.491
Rod/Stroke Ratio = 2.268 Intake Valve Stem Area = 0.043
Bore/Stroke Ratio = 1.320 Exhaust Valve Net Area = 1.052
Int Valve/Bore Ratio = 0.835 Exhaust Valve Dia. Area = 1.095
Exh Valve/Bore Ratio = 0.716 Exhaust Valve Stem Area = 0.044
Exh/Int Valve Ratio = 0.857 Exh/Int Valve Area Ratio = 0.735
Intake Valve L/D Ratio= .306 Exhaust Valve L/D Ratio= .340
CFM/Sq.Inch = 73.1 to 77.2 CFM/Sq.Inch =79.2 to 85.3
Curtain Area -to- Valve Area Convergence Intake Valve Lift inch= .345
Curtain Area -to- Valve Area Convergence Exhaust Valve Lift inch= .295


Intake Valve Margin CC's Exhaust Valve Margin CC's
1.00 CC = 0.0409 1.00 CC = 0.0557
0.50 CC = 0.0205 0.50 CC = 0.0279
0.25 CC = 0.0102 0.25 CC = 0.0139
0.10 CC = 0.0041 0.10 CC = 0.0056

------- Piston Motion Data -------
Average Piston Speed (FPM)= 5208.33 in Feet Per Minute
Maximum Piston Speed (FPM)= 8378.07 occurs at 78.103 Degrees ATDC
Piston Depth at 78.103 degree ATDC= 1.1258 inches Cylinder Volume= 157.8 CC
Maximum TDC Rod Tension GForce= 6770.68 G's
Maximum BDC Rod Compression GForce= 4324.27 G's


------- Current Camshaft Specs @ .050 -------

IntOpen= 23.50 IntClose= 51.50 ExhOpen= 52.00 ExhClose= 16.00
Intake Duration @ .050 = 255.00 Exhaust Duration @ .050 = 248.00
Intake CenterLine = 104.00 Exhaust CenterLine = 108.00
Compression Duration= 128.50 Power Duration = 128.00
OverLap Duration = 39.50 Lobe Center Angle (LCA)= 106.00
Camshaft Advanced = 2.00 degrees

-Recommended Camshaft Valve Lift-
Minimum Normal Maximum
Intake = 0.389 0.418 0.460
Exhaust = 0.354 0.382 0.420
Max-effort Intake Lift = 0.482
Max-effort Exhaust Lift = 0.440
Minimum Intake Valve Lift to prevent Choke = .418 Lift @ 12500 RPM
Minimum Exhaust Valve Lift to prevent Choke = .382 Lift @ 12500 RPM


- Induction System Tuned Lengths - ( Cylinder Head Port + Manifold Runner )
1st Harmonic= 18.004 (usually this Length is never used)
2nd Harmonic= 10.218 (some Sprint Engines and Factory OEM's w/Injectors)
3rd Harmonic= 7.134 (ProStock or Comp SheetMetal Intake)
4th Harmonic= 5.615 (Single-plane Intakes , less Torque)
5th Harmonic= 4.556 (Torque is reduced, even though Tuned Length)
6th Harmonic= 3.833 (Torque is reduced, even though Tuned Length)
7th Harmonic= 3.308 (Torque is greatly reduced, even though Tuned Length)
8th Harmonic= 2.909 (Torque is greatly reduced, even though Tuned Length)
Note> 2nd and 3rd Harmonics typically create the most Peak Torque
4th Harmonic is used to package Induction System underneath Hood

Plenum Runner Minimum Recommended Entry Area = 2.327 to 2.618 Sq.Inch
Plenum Runner Average Recommended Entry Area = 2.676 Sq.Inch
Plenum Runner Maximum Recommended Entry Area = 2.733 to 3.234 Sq.Inch

Minimum Plenum Volume CC = 408.8 [typically for Single-Plane Intakes]
Minimum Plenum Volume CID= 24.9 [typically for Single-Plane Intakes]
Maximum Plenum Volume CC = 1401.6 [typically for Tunnel Ram Intakes]
Maximum Plenum Volume CID= 85.5 [typically for Tunnel Ram Intakes]


------- Operating RPM Ranges of various Components -------

Camshaft Intake Lobe RPM = 12198 Exhaust Lobe RPM = 12040
Camshaft's Intake and Exhaust Lobes operating RPM range = 10159 to 12159
Note=> Lobe RPMs are only BallPark estimations

Minimum Intake Valve Lift to prevent Choke = .418 Lift @ 12500 RPM
Minimum Exhaust Valve Lift to prevent Choke = .382 Lift @ 12500 RPM

Current (Intake Valve Curtain Area -VS- Time) Choke RPM = 12575 RPM
Current (Exhaust Valve Curtain Area -VS- Time) Choke RPM = 13128 RPM

Intake Valve Area + Curtain Area operating RPM Range = 11298 to 13298 RPM

Intake Valve Diameter RPM Range = 10575 to 12575

Intake Flow CFM @28in RPM Range = 10475 to 12475
___________________________________________________________________________

Best estimate RPM operating range from all Components = 10504 to 12504

Note=>The BEST Engine Combo will have all Component's RPM Ranges coinciding
___________________________________________________________________________


--- Cross-Sectional Areas at various Intake Port Velocities (@ 28 in.) ---
144 FPS at Intake Valve Curtain Area= 3.645 sq.in. at .421 Lift
176 FPS at Intake Valve OD Area and at Convergence Lift = .345
217 FPS 90% PerCent Rule Seat-Throat Velocity CSA= 2.416 sq.in. at 12500 RPM
350 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.495 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Port Sonic-Choke with HP Loss
330 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.587 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Port Sonic-Choke with HP Loss
311 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.684 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Smallest Useable Port CSA
300 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.745 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Recommended Smallest Port CSA
285 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.837 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Recommended Smallest Port CSA
260 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.014 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Recommended Port CSA
250 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.095 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Recommended Port CSA
240 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.182 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Largest Intake Port Entry CSA
220 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.380 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Largest Intake Port Entry CSA
210 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.493 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Torque Loss + Reversion
200 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.618 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Torque Loss + Reversion


--- Cross-Sectional Areas at various Exhaust Port Velocities (@ 28 in.) ---
145 FPS at Exhaust Valve Curtain Area= 2.976 sq.in. at .401 Lift
198 FPS at Exhaust Valve OD Area and at Convergence Lift = .295
244 FPS 90% PerCent Rule Seat-Throat Velocity CSA= 1.775 sq.in. at 12500 RPM
435 FPS Velocity CSA= 0.995 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Sonic Choke at Throat Area
350 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.235 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Port Sonic-Choke with HP Loss
330 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.311 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Port Sonic-Choke with HP Loss
311 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.391 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Smallest Useable Port CSA
300 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.442 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Recommended Smallest Port CSA
285 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.518 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Recommended Smallest Port CSA
250 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.731 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Recommended Port CSA
240 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.803 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Recommended Port CSA
225 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.923 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Largest Exhaust Port Exit CSA
210 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.061 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Largest Exhaust Port Exit CSA
190 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.278 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Torque Loss + Reversion
180 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.404 sq.in. at 12500 RPM Torque Loss + Reversion


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InläggPostat: ons jun 06, 2012 7:50 pm 
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Blev medlem: ons nov 12, 2003 2:47 pm
Inlägg: 1986
Ort: Jeppo / Finland
238 din hk på 11100, stiger ända till rpm limit. Dom vill inte varva mera med orginal stakar, ser ut på kurvan som att den kunde ge 5-10hk till vid 12000. 169nm på 7950rpm

320fps på 215cfm.

6mm 187cfm
8mm 215cfm
10mm 236cfm
12mm 249cfm
16mm 260cfm

Går 1 mile hast.tävlingar. i år med lustgas 290hk.

Med lite tur får jag tillbaka den i höst då skall jag fòrstora kanalen.

/Andre'

_________________
power


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InläggPostat: ons jun 06, 2012 10:11 pm 
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Blev medlem: mån okt 15, 2007 10:00 pm
Inlägg: 5676
Ort: Lund
Då har du 25.75mm i minsta area, 73,5% av minsta arean.
Normalt är att inte ha under 78%.
Tror du kan få en hel del effekt till men då måste dom varva mer.
Med 11100 varv så kan du köra lite större kanal men det är alltid ett problem när man inte kan dra motorn förbi max effekten.

260 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.852 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Recommended Port CSA
Motsvarar 2st 27,58mm:s kanaler, 78,8% av ventildiametern.
Det är med den effekt du har nu men 120% VE är nog inget problem med 285 fps eftersom den har tidig varvstopp.
285 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.823 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Recommended Smallest Port CSA.
Ungefär samma storlek som ovan, 27,36. Motsvarar 78,17% av ventildiametern.

Erland



85.530 Cubic Inches @ 11100 RPM with 113.00 % Volumetric Efficiency PerCent

Required Intake Flow between 200.6 CFM and 211.5 CFM at 28 Inches
Required Exhaust Flow between 159.6 CFM and 171.9 CFM at 28 Inches

600 RPM/Sec Dyno Test Lowest Low Average Best
Peak HorsePower 224.4 233.7 238.3 242.9
Peak Torque Lbs-Ft 114.0 118.7 121.1 123.4

HorsePower per CID 2.624 2.732 2.786 2.840
Torque per Cubic Inch 1.333 1.388 1.416 1.443

BMEP in psi 201.1 209.3 213.5 217.6
Carb CFM at 1.5 in Hg. 310 345 363 380

Target EGT= 1203 degrees F at end of 4 second 600 RPM/Sec Dyno accel. test
Octane (R+M)/2 Method = 109.4 to 110.3 Octane required range
Air Standard Efficiency = 64.70290 % for 13.000:1 Compression Ratio

Peak HorsePower calculated from Cylinder Head Flow CFM only
600 RPM/Sec Dyno Test Lowest Average Best Potential
Head Flow Peak HP = 217.7 237.2 256.7

----- Engine Design Specifications -----
( English Units ) ( per each Valve Sq.Inch area )
Engine Size CID = 85.530 Intake Valve Net Area = 1.448
CID per Cylinder = 21.383 Intake Valve Dia. Area = 1.491
Rod/Stroke Ratio = 2.268 Intake Valve Stem Area = 0.043
Bore/Stroke Ratio = 1.320 Exhaust Valve Net Area = 1.052
Int Valve/Bore Ratio = 0.835 Exhaust Valve Dia. Area = 1.095
Exh Valve/Bore Ratio = 0.716 Exhaust Valve Stem Area = 0.044
Exh/Int Valve Ratio = 0.857 Exh/Int Valve Area Ratio = 0.735
Intake Valve L/D Ratio= .306 Exhaust Valve L/D Ratio= .340
CFM/Sq.Inch = 67.2 to 70.9 CFM/Sq.Inch =72.9 to 78.5
Curtain Area -to- Valve Area Convergence Intake Valve Lift inch= .345
Curtain Area -to- Valve Area Convergence Exhaust Valve Lift inch= .295


Intake Valve Margin CC's Exhaust Valve Margin CC's
1.00 CC = 0.0409 1.00 CC = 0.0557
0.50 CC = 0.0205 0.50 CC = 0.0279
0.25 CC = 0.0102 0.25 CC = 0.0139
0.10 CC = 0.0041 0.10 CC = 0.0056

------- Piston Motion Data -------
Average Piston Speed (FPM)= 4625.00 in Feet Per Minute
Maximum Piston Speed (FPM)= 7439.73 occurs at 78.103 Degrees ATDC
Piston Depth at 78.103 degree ATDC= 1.1258 inches Cylinder Volume= 157.8 CC
Maximum TDC Rod Tension GForce= 5338.98 G's
Maximum BDC Rod Compression GForce= 3409.88 G's


------- Current Camshaft Specs @ .050 -------

IntOpen= 23.50 IntClose= 51.50 ExhOpen= 52.00 ExhClose= 16.00
Intake Duration @ .050 = 255.00 Exhaust Duration @ .050 = 248.00
Intake CenterLine = 104.00 Exhaust CenterLine = 108.00
Compression Duration= 128.50 Power Duration = 128.00
OverLap Duration = 39.50 Lobe Center Angle (LCA)= 106.00
Camshaft Advanced = 2.00 degrees

-Recommended Camshaft Valve Lift-
Minimum Normal Maximum
Intake = 0.345 0.372 0.409
Exhaust = 0.315 0.339 0.373
Max-effort Intake Lift = 0.428
Max-effort Exhaust Lift = 0.391
Minimum Intake Valve Lift to prevent Choke = .372 Lift @ 11100 RPM
Minimum Exhaust Valve Lift to prevent Choke = .339 Lift @ 11100 RPM


- Induction System Tuned Lengths - ( Cylinder Head Port + Manifold Runner )
1st Harmonic= 20.343 (usually this Length is never used)
2nd Harmonic= 11.546 (some Sprint Engines and Factory OEM's w/Injectors)
3rd Harmonic= 8.061 (ProStock or Comp SheetMetal Intake)
4th Harmonic= 6.344 (Single-plane Intakes , less Torque)
5th Harmonic= 5.148 (Torque is reduced, even though Tuned Length)
6th Harmonic= 4.331 (Torque is reduced, even though Tuned Length)
7th Harmonic= 3.738 (Torque is greatly reduced, even though Tuned Length)
8th Harmonic= 3.287 (Torque is greatly reduced, even though Tuned Length)
Note> 2nd and 3rd Harmonics typically create the most Peak Torque
4th Harmonic is used to package Induction System underneath Hood

Plenum Runner Minimum Recommended Entry Area = 2.140 to 2.407 Sq.Inch
Plenum Runner Average Recommended Entry Area = 2.460 Sq.Inch
Plenum Runner Maximum Recommended Entry Area = 2.513 to 2.974 Sq.Inch

Minimum Plenum Volume CC = 363.0 [typically for Single-Plane Intakes]
Minimum Plenum Volume CID= 22.2 [typically for Single-Plane Intakes]
Maximum Plenum Volume CC = 1401.6 [typically for Tunnel Ram Intakes]
Maximum Plenum Volume CID= 85.5 [typically for Tunnel Ram Intakes]


------- Operating RPM Ranges of various Components -------

Camshaft Intake Lobe RPM = 12198 Exhaust Lobe RPM = 12040
Camshaft's Intake and Exhaust Lobes operating RPM range = 10159 to 12159
Note=> Lobe RPMs are only BallPark estimations

Minimum Intake Valve Lift to prevent Choke = .372 Lift @ 11100 RPM
Minimum Exhaust Valve Lift to prevent Choke = .339 Lift @ 11100 RPM

Current (Intake Valve Curtain Area -VS- Time) Choke RPM = 12575 RPM
Current (Exhaust Valve Curtain Area -VS- Time) Choke RPM = 13128 RPM

Intake Valve Area + Curtain Area operating RPM Range = 11298 to 13298 RPM

Intake Valve Diameter RPM Range = 10575 to 12575

Intake Flow CFM @28in RPM Range = 9165 to 11165
___________________________________________________________________________

Best estimate RPM operating range from all Components = 9381 to 11381

Note=>The BEST Engine Combo will have all Component's RPM Ranges coinciding
___________________________________________________________________________


--- Cross-Sectional Areas at various Intake Port Velocities (@ 28 in.) ---
132 FPS at Intake Valve Curtain Area= 3.645 sq.in. at .421 Lift
161 FPS at Intake Valve OD Area and at Convergence Lift = .345
199 FPS 90% PerCent Rule Seat-Throat Velocity CSA= 2.416 sq.in. at 11100 RPM
350 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.374 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Port Sonic-Choke with HP Loss
330 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.459 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Port Sonic-Choke with HP Loss
311 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.548 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Smallest Useable Port CSA
300 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.605 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Recommended Smallest Port CSA
285 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.689 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Recommended Smallest Port CSA
260 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.852 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Recommended Port CSA
250 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.926 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Recommended Port CSA
240 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.006 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Largest Intake Port Entry CSA
220 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.188 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Largest Intake Port Entry CSA
210 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.292 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Torque Loss + Reversion
200 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.407 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Torque Loss + Reversion


--- Cross-Sectional Areas at various Exhaust Port Velocities (@ 28 in.) ---
134 FPS at Exhaust Valve Curtain Area= 2.976 sq.in. at .401 Lift
182 FPS at Exhaust Valve OD Area and at Convergence Lift = .295
224 FPS 90% PerCent Rule Seat-Throat Velocity CSA= 1.775 sq.in. at 11100 RPM
435 FPS Velocity CSA= 0.915 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Sonic Choke at Throat Area
350 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.136 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Port Sonic-Choke with HP Loss
330 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.206 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Port Sonic-Choke with HP Loss
311 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.279 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Smallest Useable Port CSA
300 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.326 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Recommended Smallest Port CSA
285 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.396 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Recommended Smallest Port CSA
250 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.591 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Recommended Port CSA
240 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.658 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Recommended Port CSA
225 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.768 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Largest Exhaust Port Exit CSA
210 FPS Velocity CSA= 1.894 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Largest Exhaust Port Exit CSA
190 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.094 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Torque Loss + Reversion
180 FPS Velocity CSA= 2.210 sq.in. at 11100 RPM Torque Loss + Reversion


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InläggPostat: lör dec 08, 2012 9:33 pm 
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Lite mer laddtryck

Blev medlem: lör okt 31, 2009 8:24 pm
Inlägg: 22
Ort: Reso
Finnsebbe skrev:
Har inte nära kontakt med killen. Det har varit en hel del strul med styrningar och sånt. Toppen började funka visst till sist. Tyvärr havererade blocket totalt för en tid sedan. Blev massiva hål i cylinderväggarna ända ut i det fria. Det var ett fodrat block som fodren visst börjat röra sig i. En ny underdel är under uppbyggnad. Toppen hade visst inte skadats så farligt, nya ventiler behövs väl.


Toppen är hemma igen :thumbright:

_________________
Eight Valve Only Raisio


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InläggPostat: sön dec 09, 2012 2:35 pm 
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Topplocks-guru

Blev medlem: mån okt 15, 2007 10:00 pm
Inlägg: 5676
Ort: Lund
Kan du inte lägga upp bilder så vi kan få se toppen?

Erland


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InläggPostat: tis dec 11, 2012 8:07 pm 
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Lite mer laddtryck

Blev medlem: lör okt 31, 2009 8:24 pm
Inlägg: 22
Ort: Reso
Här är några gamla bilder :roll:

Bild

Bild

Bild

Bild

Bild

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InläggPostat: tis dec 11, 2012 8:42 pm 
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Topplocks-guru

Blev medlem: mån okt 15, 2007 10:00 pm
Inlägg: 5676
Ort: Lund
Finns det bara en topp eller går det att göra flera?
Du vill inte ha lite hjälp med att göra kanalerna bättre på den?
Har du några ritningar så att man kan se hur kanalerna ser ut?

mvh. Erland


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