HX40 with variable twin scroll exhaust housing
- Stefan Ingi Jonsson
- Lite mer laddtryck
- Inlägg: 35
- Blev medlem: fre aug 21, 2020 12:28 am
- Ort: Reykjavík 105
HX40 with variable twin scroll exhaust housing
Is it possible to modify a HX40 twin scroll exhaust housing?.
What I mean by modify is to put a "flap" valve that guides all the exhaust gas into the scroll near the bearing house.
And hopefully get a wider powerband.
Something like this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=twin+sc ... PoqSITVzsM
What I mean by modify is to put a "flap" valve that guides all the exhaust gas into the scroll near the bearing house.
And hopefully get a wider powerband.
Something like this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=twin+sc ... PoqSITVzsM
- Johan Posth
- Forumsberoende
- Inlägg: 707
- Blev medlem: ons okt 26, 2005 9:33 pm
- Ort: Laxå
Re: HX40 with variable twin scroll exhaust housing
Check DieselPumpUK, they preffer to use that type of valve onto diesel engines with bigger turbo.
They even have on their YT page a clip about the benefits according to them.
https://www.dieselpumpuk.com/shop/turbo ... tercooled/
They even have on their YT page a clip about the benefits according to them.
https://www.dieselpumpuk.com/shop/turbo ... tercooled/
Johan Posth, Laxå
070-2390054
070-2390054
Re: HX40 with variable twin scroll exhaust housing
I'm not sure if it's something like this that you're trying to do, this is external though.
They have some really great videos as well where they talk about their RX engine and the development.
https://shop.elmerracing.com/billet-mer ... in-wg.html
They have some really great videos as well where they talk about their RX engine and the development.
https://shop.elmerracing.com/billet-mer ... in-wg.html
- Jens Gustavsson
- Sävar Turbo Racing
- Inlägg: 21695
- Blev medlem: mån sep 22, 2003 5:47 pm
- Ort: Tomterna/sävar
- Kontakt:
Re: HX40 with variable twin scroll exhaust housing
jag trodde jag uppfan detta tidigt 90tal vid skol bänken skissandes på helt andra grejor än skolan ville men som med allt här i värden så fans det ett patent från typ -40talet haha.
det har en plats speciellt på 5 cyl motorer och då man bak monterar turbos skulle jag säga!
mvh jens
det har en plats speciellt på 5 cyl motorer och då man bak monterar turbos skulle jag säga!
mvh jens
True metal people wanna rock not pose!
Jensas Speedshop
Den senapsgula 142an med B20 10.61sek/402m
B20 Vegan 5.92/185 9.50/225
Samarbetar med: KL Racing | Lube Tools | | AGAP | VEMS https://www.maxxecu.se/
Jensas Speedshop
Den senapsgula 142an med B20 10.61sek/402m
B20 Vegan 5.92/185 9.50/225
Samarbetar med: KL Racing | Lube Tools | | AGAP | VEMS https://www.maxxecu.se/
- Stefan Ingi Jonsson
- Lite mer laddtryck
- Inlägg: 35
- Blev medlem: fre aug 21, 2020 12:28 am
- Ort: Reykjavík 105
Re: HX40 with variable twin scroll exhaust housing
I have seen this spool valve, but I think the valve deflects the pulses too much, because the flow has to be directed at the valve.psa skrev: ↑tis dec 28, 2021 9:26 pm I'm not sure if it's something like this that you're trying to do, this is external though.
They have some really great videos as well where they talk about their RX engine and the development.
https://shop.elmerracing.com/billet-mer ... in-wg.html
And cyl 1-4 and 2-3 are not separated.
The turbine does not absorbe energy from the pulses that the valve deflects, and the pulses interfere with one another.
Therefore the turbine needs more "average" exhaust pressure to drive the compressor.
This is how I think about this valve.
But it's a clever idea
For example:
I'm thinking about an exhaust housing that guides exhaust from cyl 1-4 and 2-3 to one scroll to spool the turbo at 2500rpm. And when the turbo has reached 1 bar then it opens up both scrolls and guides exhaust from 1-4 to one scroll and 2-3 to the other scroll.
Then the wastegate opens at 2 bar from 4000rpm to 7500 as a true twin scroll.
However im not sure how the motor will respond to 1 bar at 2500-3000 if its possible to reach than pressure.
Will it be too much torque for stock pistons?
Will it knock because the piston is too long in top position?
Does the valve(flap) have to seal perfectly in both positions?
Will there be too much compressor surge at low rpm?
In that example im using b21 with:
kg004 cam, 531 head, 8.3/1 CR, super hx40 t3 60in/65out 16cm2, twin scroll manifold, cheap klracing intake, intercooler(550x300x115 3"pipe).
Hopefully water/meth will be installed next february
The reason I'm thinking about this, is that I want to try this on my drift volvo 244
All Ideas are greatly appreciated.
- Stefan Ingi Jonsson
- Lite mer laddtryck
- Inlägg: 35
- Blev medlem: fre aug 21, 2020 12:28 am
- Ort: Reykjavík 105
Re: HX40 with variable twin scroll exhaust housing
Jens are you talking about the Elmerracing spool valve?Jens Gustavsson skrev: ↑tis dec 28, 2021 11:04 pm jag trodde jag uppfan detta tidigt 90tal vid skol bänken skissandes på helt andra grejor än skolan ville men som med allt här i värden så fans det ett patent från typ -40talet haha.
det har en plats speciellt på 5 cyl motorer och då man bak monterar turbos skulle jag säga!
mvh jens
- Jens Gustavsson
- Sävar Turbo Racing
- Inlägg: 21695
- Blev medlem: mån sep 22, 2003 5:47 pm
- Ort: Tomterna/sävar
- Kontakt:
Re: HX40 with variable twin scroll exhaust housing
Det finns flera olika typer av ventil lösningar men ja den typen. men som sagt på 4 och 6 cyl motorer förstör det nog ett bra grenrör mer än vad det ger skulle jag tro. 5 cylindriga och bilar med bak monterade turbosar så skulle det nog kunna fungera om man har en bra turbo för det och en bra ventil som inte stryper för mycket.
mvh jens
mvh jens
True metal people wanna rock not pose!
Jensas Speedshop
Den senapsgula 142an med B20 10.61sek/402m
B20 Vegan 5.92/185 9.50/225
Samarbetar med: KL Racing | Lube Tools | | AGAP | VEMS https://www.maxxecu.se/
Jensas Speedshop
Den senapsgula 142an med B20 10.61sek/402m
B20 Vegan 5.92/185 9.50/225
Samarbetar med: KL Racing | Lube Tools | | AGAP | VEMS https://www.maxxecu.se/
Re: HX40 with variable twin scroll exhaust housing
RX engines are restricted as well so they don't need boost control in the same way, they do need to make sure that the turbo doesn't over rev though.
It's also a matter of reliability in racing, using complexity at the right places, like 3D printing or machining the collector for perfect shape, that's expensive but they can avoid the internal valve.
It's also a matter of reliability in racing, using complexity at the right places, like 3D printing or machining the collector for perfect shape, that's expensive but they can avoid the internal valve.
- Stefan Ingi Jonsson
- Lite mer laddtryck
- Inlägg: 35
- Blev medlem: fre aug 21, 2020 12:28 am
- Ort: Reykjavík 105
Re: HX40 with variable twin scroll exhaust housing
The valve I'm talking about would only work on 4 and 6 cyl engines. Very simple flap valve inside the exhaust housing, not the manifold.Jens Gustavsson skrev: ↑ons dec 29, 2021 9:14 am Det finns flera olika typer av ventil lösningar men ja den typen. men som sagt på 4 och 6 cyl motorer förstör det nog ett bra grenrör mer än vad det ger skulle jag tro. 5 cylindriga och bilar med bak monterade turbosar så skulle det nog kunna fungera om man har en bra turbo för det och en bra ventil som inte stryper för mycket.
mvh jens
Like this turbo; https://www.motorauthority.com/news/110 ... -of-turbos
- Stefan Ingi Jonsson
- Lite mer laddtryck
- Inlägg: 35
- Blev medlem: fre aug 21, 2020 12:28 am
- Ort: Reykjavík 105
Re: HX40 with variable twin scroll exhaust housing
"In short, the Borg Warner setup has a special valve that can apportion airflow from the vehicle's exhaust between either a single scroll or twin scroll. Each offers its own advantages, depending on the engine and how hard it needs to work to motivate a vehicle.psa skrev: ↑ons dec 29, 2021 11:33 am RX engines are restricted as well so they don't need boost control in the same way, they do need to make sure that the turbo doesn't over rev though.
It's also a matter of reliability in racing, using complexity at the right places, like 3D printing or machining the collector for perfect shape, that's expensive but they can avoid the internal valve.
The overall advantage here is that the valve allows automakers to utilize less exotic materials for a variable geometry turbocharger to work in a gas engine, where exhaust temperatures can be very high. This means that variable twin-scroll turbochargers could be feasible for use in a wide range of vehicles at a reasonable price point."
This is a quote from; https://www.motorauthority.com/news/110 ... -of-turbos
This solution seems too have less complexity
Re: HX40 with variable twin scroll exhaust housing
The article pointed out what I said, and in the end it's still for two different purposes/markets.Stefan Ingi Jonsson skrev: ↑ons dec 29, 2021 2:11 pm"In short, the Borg Warner setup has a special valve that can apportion airflow from the vehicle's exhaust between either a single scroll or twin scroll. Each offers its own advantages, depending on the engine and how hard it needs to work to motivate a vehicle.psa skrev: ↑ons dec 29, 2021 11:33 am RX engines are restricted as well so they don't need boost control in the same way, they do need to make sure that the turbo doesn't over rev though.
It's also a matter of reliability in racing, using complexity at the right places, like 3D printing or machining the collector for perfect shape, that's expensive but they can avoid the internal valve.
The overall advantage here is that the valve allows automakers to utilize less exotic materials for a variable geometry turbocharger to work in a gas engine, where exhaust temperatures can be very high. This means that variable twin-scroll turbochargers could be feasible for use in a wide range of vehicles at a reasonable price point."
This is a quote from; https://www.motorauthority.com/news/110 ... -of-turbos
This solution seems too have less complexity
But if you want to be a dick and roll your eyes then please do so.
- Stefan Ingi Jonsson
- Lite mer laddtryck
- Inlägg: 35
- Blev medlem: fre aug 21, 2020 12:28 am
- Ort: Reykjavík 105
Re: HX40 with variable twin scroll exhaust housing
psa I'm not being a dick (you are misunderstanding my emoji which might be my mistake) I'm speaking to you about this topic and trying too understand your point.psa skrev: ↑ons dec 29, 2021 5:12 pmThe article pointed out what I said, and in the end it's still for two different purposes/markets.Stefan Ingi Jonsson skrev: ↑ons dec 29, 2021 2:11 pm
"In short, the Borg Warner setup has a special valve that can apportion airflow from the vehicle's exhaust between either a single scroll or twin scroll. Each offers its own advantages, depending on the engine and how hard it needs to work to motivate a vehicle.
The overall advantage here is that the valve allows automakers to utilize less exotic materials for a variable geometry turbocharger to work in a gas engine, where exhaust temperatures can be very high. This means that variable twin-scroll turbochargers could be feasible for use in a wide range of vehicles at a reasonable price point."
This is a quote from; https://www.motorauthority.com/news/110 ... -of-turbos
This solution seems too have less complexity
But if you want to be a dick and roll your eyes then please do so.
Why avoid the internal valve? That's probably what I want to know the answer to mainly.
This is a quote from Elmerracing;
"The ultimate part for making exhaust manifolds for maximum performance. Featuring smooth transitions, and exact dimensions for the best flow possible. This translates into less back pressure, and means more power with the same boost, or the same power with lower boost (and less lag)!"
As you see, they are looking at the same areas as I am.
We are talking about two different purposes/markets.
However, with the same goals regarding combustion engines. Less back pressure, more power and less lag.
On this forum, most of us don't like being called a dick.
These are bad manners.
Re: HX40 with variable twin scroll exhaust housing
What about building a manifold with the collector going in to the "Low rpm scroll" and a wastegate from the collector leading in to the "high rpm scroll"? Sort of having the "flap" before the turbo flange and not in the housing.
Have seen a build of this but cant remember from where.
Have seen a build of this but cant remember from where.
- Stefan Ingi Jonsson
- Lite mer laddtryck
- Inlägg: 35
- Blev medlem: fre aug 21, 2020 12:28 am
- Ort: Reykjavík 105
Re: HX40 with variable twin scroll exhaust housing
Are you talking about something like this?Allx skrev: ↑tor dec 30, 2021 10:36 pm What about building a manifold with the collector going in to the "Low rpm scroll" and a wastegate from the collector leading in to the "high rpm scroll"? Sort of having the "flap" before the turbo flange and not in the housing.
Have seen a build of this but cant remember from where.
https://shop.elmerracing.com/billet-mer ... in-wg.html
Re: HX40 with variable twin scroll exhaust housing
Yep! You were talking about that in the thread but I didnt know it was called a spoolvalve