b230 problems.

Diskussioner för erfaret folk
bmw2101
Lite mer laddtryck
Inlägg: 27
Blev medlem: tis feb 16, 2021 9:33 pm

Re: b230 problems.

Inlägg av bmw2101 »

oh yes, i can mix parts ok, it is the engine type, so b230 is the type. It is on microsquirt so its all mapped, uses crank sensor, tps, map sensor. With the Kjet are they not the same injectors as the lh2.4? Can i not control the K jet with the microsquirt?


im not sure if i have messed up my 531 head or not as i ported the exhaust side, not sure if i should get another head and start again but it would be a 530.
psa
För mycket laddtryck
Inlägg: 192
Blev medlem: lör apr 21, 2012 9:21 pm

Re: b230 problems.

Inlägg av psa »

Oh okay, well get an E intake and weld injector bungs in the runners, it's pretty common.
E engines use CI style injection, it's mechanical and completely different.
I'm not sure about your head, I would probably leave it as is until you get the other sorted out and evaluate the situation then.
bmw2101
Lite mer laddtryck
Inlägg: 27
Blev medlem: tis feb 16, 2021 9:33 pm

Re: b230 problems.

Inlägg av bmw2101 »

i think it is legal to weld the injector bungs in, but not sure, ill jsut do it and see what happens.

is there a known combination of 530 head and cam and skim that works? i could just do that?
whilliam
Forumsberoende
Inlägg: 874
Blev medlem: fre jul 31, 2015 11:30 pm
Ort: Joachim Whilliam Brandin. Björklinge

Re: b230 problems.

Inlägg av whilliam »

Looking att your dyno, what is the figure you want? At that one it is maxing out at 154Lb and with proper compression ratio you should see 170Lb (theoretically) on flow alone (no extra induction from tuned pulses).

What's holding down your torque is probably the camshaft (keeping too much open at low revs to let the cylinders fill completely)
A cam with more lift and less duration will help flow and not make the engine so sensitive to pulses (pulses is what is keepin power low in your midrange)
You can also do as suggested by psa and work with runners length and the thing you took up yourself (exhaust manifold) is also important (actually, most important) to keep in tune.

I think you can get 180Lb and 180 Hp with the cam you have there but it will take a lot of effort to match the exhaust and runner length.
Could you be happy with that?
bmw2101
Lite mer laddtryck
Inlägg: 27
Blev medlem: tis feb 16, 2021 9:33 pm

Re: b230 problems.

Inlägg av bmw2101 »

the problem with the exhaust is its really restricted by the bmw;s steering shaft, i cant really myself make anything better than the one i did today i put the pic up before. i can only make the best of a bad job or pay a lot of cash for a professional one.

the 180/180 would be good, but i am willing to go further if i can. If it was a pinto engine id say like use a rl22 camshaft, do this and that, and itll do this power.


if i get a 530, do some chamber work, skim it, i think itll be better than me 531 now. my mate had a 2.5 penta motor, had split 48 carbs on it, so only one side of the carb was used to get aroudn the rules, and cast manifold, he had 156 bhp and 170 lbs at the wheels. He had a K cam i think it was and 2mm off the 531. id liek that power!!
whilliam
Forumsberoende
Inlägg: 874
Blev medlem: fre jul 31, 2015 11:30 pm
Ort: Joachim Whilliam Brandin. Björklinge

Re: b230 problems.

Inlägg av whilliam »

What you are saying seems strange.... 180/180 is ok but you want more if possible. then: 156/170 at the wheels - that is about the 180Hp at flywheel and the higher torque is from the extra 0.2 litre.

If you stick to bad exhaust it is not easy to get anything good from the cam you got.
Please tell us what is your compression ratio? did you measure the volume of the chambers?

When going for big cam most important stuff is compression ratio and exhaust

i can not see what should be better with 530, i think the 531 is better for you.
bmw2101
Lite mer laddtryck
Inlägg: 27
Blev medlem: tis feb 16, 2021 9:33 pm

Re: b230 problems.

Inlägg av bmw2101 »

i see roger s power as being fairly standard mod power, if i can go more, id like more. This is a rally car, i want it to be as good as i can get from it. I dont know if its worth the money to get the enem cams or the agap ones?


i had worked out the compression to be 12:1, im sure the chambers worked out at 41cc, but from what ive been told i gasket matched the exhaust and that is really bad?

dont get me wrong, i have no idea where this is going, i am only guessing.
bmw2101
Lite mer laddtryck
Inlägg: 27
Blev medlem: tis feb 16, 2021 9:33 pm

Re: b230 problems.

Inlägg av bmw2101 »

can i just say also , just googled "Lite mer laddtryck " under my name, and thats not allowed for road rallying a b230 lol!
whilliam
Forumsberoende
Inlägg: 874
Blev medlem: fre jul 31, 2015 11:30 pm
Ort: Joachim Whilliam Brandin. Björklinge

Re: b230 problems.

Inlägg av whilliam »

bmw2101 skrev: sön feb 21, 2021 12:08 am i had worked out the compression to be 12:1, im sure the chambers worked out at 41cc, but from what ive been told i gasket matched the exhaust and that is really bad?
Show us the ignition map in the ECU, some of us can verify it is matching your torque curve and compressoion ratio.

The port coming out from head should be a little smaller than exhaustpipe, reason for this is that it will form a little "anti reversion lip".
Porting it away does not aid forward flow by much and it lets the reverse flow freely in to engine. The effect is not like black and white but it will affect power a little in some areas where exhaust is out of tune.

Best thing is that you can fix it, :thumbright: you could build something better than the little irregular lip formed by mismatch at gasket area.

See this:
https://nasaspeed.news/tech/engine/the- ... an-engine/
bmw2101
Lite mer laddtryck
Inlägg: 27
Blev medlem: tis feb 16, 2021 9:33 pm

Re: b230 problems.

Inlägg av bmw2101 »

right ok thanks! ill have a go at adding those, any idea of how big they should be for our engine?

I am glad the 531 is saved, but i also recon i need a new camshaft for it, so which one?
whilliam
Forumsberoende
Inlägg: 874
Blev medlem: fre jul 31, 2015 11:30 pm
Ort: Joachim Whilliam Brandin. Björklinge

Re: b230 problems.

Inlägg av whilliam »

If you do the inlet and exhaust right you do not need another cam :thumbright: If you buy a more effective cam it will help a little, but not as much as right tune for the pulses (one could say that your existing cam is sensitive to pulses and a new one could be less sensitive but not UNSENSITIVE)

You can make a step by porting a little more in exhaust channel, until a piece of pipe will fit in there (like 4-8mm deep) and the inside of the pipe should be the same cross sectional area as the port.
Thunderbo1t
Forumsberoende
Inlägg: 783
Blev medlem: mån okt 31, 2011 5:29 pm
Ort: Ljusdal

Re: b230 problems.

Inlägg av Thunderbo1t »

Maybe you could make a spacer between cylinder head and E-intake and put the injectors in the spacer?
bmw2101
Lite mer laddtryck
Inlägg: 27
Blev medlem: tis feb 16, 2021 9:33 pm

Re: b230 problems.

Inlägg av bmw2101 »

right ok i think ill do the pieces that go int he exhaust pipe itsself, they dont look hard to make and probably more affective.

Ill keep that cam then and see what power it does.


I dont know if ican make a manafold for the injectors, or weld them on. Ill ask the MSA and see what they say.


i forgot to say, the map, i am scared of deleting it by accident as im not so good with tuner studio and did that once before lol. it was on a proper rolling road to get set up, and the guy said it was as good as it could be. No reason to doubt him , he is well known.


thankyou so much for the replies, i had bought a duratec for the car and my mate said to keep teh volvo its a much better engine.
psa
För mycket laddtryck
Inlägg: 192
Blev medlem: lör apr 21, 2012 9:21 pm

Re: b230 problems.

Inlägg av psa »

bmw2101 skrev: sön feb 21, 2021 12:08 am
i had worked out the compression to be 12:1, im sure the chambers worked out at 41cc, but from what ive been told i gasket matched the exhaust and that is really bad?
It's a problem on both intake and exhaust to gasket match. These heads flow a lot on the exhaust side from the factory, they just need a light touch up beneath the valve for an engine like this.
On the intake side it's a matter of looking at the whole flow path, not just grinding away where it's easy, and the intake manifold is really the big restriction on an F engine with a 531.
That's one reason why I would look in to running the E intake modified for EFI injectors.
bmw2101
Lite mer laddtryck
Inlägg: 27
Blev medlem: tis feb 16, 2021 9:33 pm

Re: b230 problems.

Inlägg av bmw2101 »

right ok, i have just re read the rules, and i have noticed, this is the bit that applies to me;

18.3.1.Fuel injection may be fitted where it was standard equipment by the manufacturer for that engine type and wherethe original plenum chamber and throttle body is retained for that engine type.

So it dosnt say i cant put different injectors on the manifold, so i recon ill message the msa to be sure, and then if there is ever a problem im covered. I have found a manifold local too.

So, to recap, keep the 531, keep the cam, put resonators in the collector pipes, fit E inlet with lh2.4 type injectors.

sounds good to me so far!
Skriv svar