först lite data om den turbon jag har kört i sommar.....
compressorn är en 7 blads 56-57mm modell dubbelt inlopp i compressorn.
avgasdel 65mm och #16 avgashus med T3 fläns med svetsat och bort fräst westgate.
vid 2bar laddtryck ca 1.35bar under 7000rpm och ca 1.5 vid 8200rpm (183km/t slutfart på 201m med 1100kg bil) ca 540hk??? (kommer exakta siffror om nån månad)
vad jag förstått så brukar färre blad i kompressorn öka flödet och tryck??? jag har också en 6 blads 56-57mm compressor som man kan testa.
sen har jag har jag en 6 blads 60-61mm compressor (HX40W-8594Z/ga19EC8) och kanse en 7 blads snart också. vad blir för och nackdelarna med den?
vad gällande avgashus så kan jag byta fläns till en större T4 om det kan ge fördelar?
jag har ett #17 T4 avagshus och ett #19 T4 hus också tror jag som man kan labba med med de större compressorerna.
jag är bara lite orolig för att den större compressorerna kräver en större turbin för att behålla ett lågt driv tryck (avgastryck)
sen så skulle jag eventuellt få testa en race 62/65mm turbo från PPF för jämförande tester
här är lite "snack" från ett annat forum, ta datat med en nypa salt.... holset värkar också speca flöderna lite annorlunda jämfört med tex garret som gör att man måste gångra flödet med ca 1.047 för att det ska bli jämförbart??
A nice read. Great general Holset info everyone
« on: May 04, 2009, 07:15:57 PM »
HX35:
The 8blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on 1995-1998 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 52 lb/min according to the compressor map. The bolton BEP housing (0.55 a/r) is enough to push the limit of the compressor. There's several 500whp 8blade hx35 cars out there with the bolt on housing. It reaches 20+psi by 3500rpms in 3rd with 272 cams. Smaller cams would equal a faster spool speed in most cases.
The 7blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on the 1999-2002 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 60lb/min according to the compressor map and logged results from a member here. The bolton BEP housing with the hx35 turbine wheel do not SEAM to have enough flow to really reach the potential of 60lb/min. But many have logged over 50lb/min so far and seen 500whp. The stock hx35 12cm^2 twinscroll turbine housing is a t3 flange housing. This mated to a NON-divided runner manifold has produced a 132mph trap speed with a full weight 1g AWD. This is about 600whp. So the flow is there with the stock housing if you use a non-divided manifold. The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.
HY35:
The hy35 has a smaller turbine wheel than the hx35. And, it has a turbine housing connection that does not allow for a bolton housing to be used. It does not have a divided housing so any t3 manifold can be used effectively with this turbo. It has the same compressor as the 7blade hx35. We don't know if te hy35 turbine wheel and housing is enough to reache the 60lb/min potential of the 56mm 7blade compressor. Some one try it out already!!! It should at least be a faster spooling viable option to the full t3/t4 50-trim.
H1C/WH1C:
In 1994, there was the Wh1c which has pretty much the identical compressor as the hx35 but with a Vband compressor cover. The turbine wheel is the same. It will bolt into the BEP bolton hx35 turbine housing. It has 4 bolts at the housing instead of 6. So you will need to buy 2 more bolts and use 6 washers cut to make a flat side. Honestly, I just used bolts that were cut a little short and the bolt head was wide enough to pull the chra to the turbine housing. No sealing issues. Since the Wh1c is for all practical purposes an 8blade hx35 the spool and flow is the same too.
I have the big h1c. It comes on the INTERCOOLED 1991-1993 cummins pickups. It has the webbing for MWE but no groove cut like the hx35/wh1c has. This turbo I term the big h1c because it has a 54mm compressor inducer and same exducer than the 8blade hx35/Wh1c. The other h1c is the small h1c found on the NON-intercooled cummins pickups. This has a 50mm inducer but only 7blades and has no webbing for MWE. Less blades helps flow, but so does a larger inducer diameter. The most whp ever recorded on a gas 4cylinder with the small h1c was done on a KA24 nissan: 411whp. Since the big h1c has a 4mm larger inducer and the same turbine wheel as the hx35, it is safe to say that it flows enough for between 411whp and 500whp. The diesel sources state that it flows SLIGHTLY less than the early hx35. So 4lb/min less than the 8blade hx35 puts the flow of the big h1c at 48-49lb/min right where a 50-trim or 20g is. The small bep housing is all that's needed to get the most from the compressor and the spool speed is 20+psi by 3500rpms.
HX35-40 hybrid:
Keeping the long tradition of the marriage of sportcompact and hybrid turbos, there is the hx35 turbine and the hx40 compressor. It is strongly recommended to use the large bep turbine housing or the stock hx35 turbine housing with an non-divided t3 manifold for this turbo. The small bep housing around a t31 size hx35 turbine wheel is probably not enough to merit any of the hx40 compressor wheel upgrades. 20+ psi by 4000rpms can be seen in the hx35/40 with the hx35 12cm^2 turbine housing with a non-divided t3 manifold. With the large bep housing, spool times are to be determined. But likely similar.
HX40:
The 8blade hx40 has a 58mm inducer and flows about the same as a 60-1 (around 60lb/min) with ALOT better high boost efficiency and spool speed. It is the most common hx40 out there. The small bep housing with the hx40 turbine wheel is plenty to reach the full potential of the 60lb/min 8blade hx40 compressor. 20+ psi by 4100rpms with 272s.
The 7 and 6 blade hx40 is called the super40 and has the 60mm compressor inducer. This compressor flows around 69lb/min. You can get this wheel in billet style (think HTA). The non-billet wheel spools as fast as the 8blade hx40 in the bolton bep housing and has done 653whp at 40psi per the holset results only thread. Billet should spool even faster. The t3 .70 a/r BEP housing slows spool about 400rpms. But reports show a significant gain in flow per psi. So expect more power at lower boost with that turbine housing.
H1E/WH1E:
The Wh1e is like it's little brother the Wh1c. It mirrors the hx40 8blade in every way except that it has a v-band compressor cover and a 4bolt chra-turbinehousing pattern. It will consequently bolt into the hx40 bep bolton turbine housing and this is plenty of flow to max out its 60lb/min compressor.
The h1e is like it's little brother the h1c. There are different size compressors. . . BUT there are also different size turbine wheels too. Check measurements before buying this turbo if you plan on running a BEP turbine housing. There are lower flowing compressors than the 58mm 8blade that are out there. So this turbo may not flow any more than an hx35 if get the wrong one. You need at least a 58mm compressor inducer for this to be a worthwhile turbo vs the proven hx35 or 8blade hx40.
HX52:
This is a big sucker. It is commonly found on the Volvo Semis and usually has a billet compressor wheel. It flows 88lb/min. There is no bolt on housing for it. If you want a bolton housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. In fact if you want a t3 flange turbine housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. You DO want this turbo if you're looking at a gt4294r or gt4202r. The turbine inlet is slightly different than a t4 bolt pattern. You can still get the t4 manifold to work just fine by enlarging the bolt holes.
Misc.:
* Holset's don't spool slow. They spool faster than their garrett or mitsubishi counterparts. Diesel exhaust is cold and slow moving.
* The holset turbine wheel is a work of art. It has been shown to flow very well in a very small turbine housing. For example the hx40 turbine wheel in the small .55 ar bep bolton housing flows as much as a garrett gt35r turbine wheel in a larger .63 ar garrett t3 turbine housing. The hx40 with this configuration spools about 500rpms faster! You can upgrade to the .70 a/r BEP t3 turbine housing and have the same or slightly faster spool speed as the above gt35r with ALOT more flow per psi and consequently more horsepower per psi. This makes for VERY good pumpgas numbers.
* Holset patented map width enhancement. They do not have extended tip technology, but there compressors show more efficiency than their garrett or mitsubishi counterpart.
* They have superback technology witch leads to VERY, VERY durable compressors. The are designed to be overworked and underpaid.
* There are discrepancies all over the web concerning the compressor maps. Take what you hear/read with a grain of salt and a shot of tequila, and the worm.
* The holset is fine with stock 4g63 oil pressure from the oil filter housing. If you have no b shafts, you'll need a restrictor. The drain line is a garret bolt pattern. The feed line is different for different turbos.
As for the "how much hp" or "which turbo for X hp", it's tough because Holsets have such a wide range of compressors for each turbo, but in general at "sane" boost levels less than 2 bar;
HY35- more than 450hp at the motor, but not many people have messed with them. They have a smaller exhaust wheel than the HX35 with the same compressor, and a smaller a/r SINGLE scroll ex housing. The few people I have heard running them say the have REALLY fast spool--like over 1 bar by less than 3k rpm on a 2.0L 4 banger.
HX35- 450hp to 550hp at the motor depending on the compressor blade count. Spool on a RB25 would be less than 3.5k rpm. The DSM guys say it'll make a lot more than that, but I just have a tough time believing it. They are ripping off 132mph trap speeds with them though, so I guess it's possible. They do crazy stuff though like running 2.1 bar on C16 or water/methanol injection.
HX35/40 hybrid- This was my first venture with holsets. I was making 1 bar by 3.5 and 1.5 bar by around 3.9k rpm in 3 IIRC. Keep in mind though, that's with cams, RB26 intake and ITB's (short runners), and no VCT. I've got a vid I'll link up later. Stock everything would spool up a bit quicker I think. I had the smaller 8 blade HX 40 compressor mated to a HX35 ex wheel/housing. I would spike it to 1.6, but it would fall off on the top end to around 1.4 bar. I was making mid 500's at the motor with it. This is the one I pegged out a Z32 MAF with.
HX40- Capable of around 500-600rwhp depending on the compressor. The smaller 8 blade is what I had making mid 500's at the motor. The 6 or 7 blade compressor is the bigger one and it's a 69lb/min compressor and it's what I have now. With a 19cm housing, I make 1 bar by 4.1k rpm in third gear and 1.5 by less than 4.5k rpm.
HX52- This thing is huge. Like 104mm exducer and 72mm inducer IIRC. My buddy has one on his RB25 and makes 1 bar by under 5k rpm with big cams and a custom intake and a 16cm ex housing. He stopped turning up the boost around 1.4 bar because he was over 95% on 740cc injectors at a/f's in the high 11's. Make of that what you will, but that thing scares the CRAP out of me. It's in a S14 Sylvia BTW. He will pull hard on stripped out, T88, RB26 S13's at our local drag spot. He's currently looking for a tripple plate and 1000cc injectors.
VGT-Quick summary, these things are BEEFY and while I don't know the metal composition, I can assure you running them in a gasoline application will not be a problem (except in the case of the newer ones with variable a/r ex housing--which people have started using in gasoline engines already, but I have my doubts about their longevity).
The other big thing I wanted to bring up is it sounds like you believe these turbo's to be slow spooling due to lack of BB CHRA's. These are bush bearing, but they out spool there respective sized Garret BB counterparts. They are indeed twin scroll (split pulse) with the exception of the HY and some other strange one off applications of HX40's. The wheel design is MUCH better than Garret's design and as I'm sure you know, wheel design is much more a factor in spool time than whether or not a CHRA is BB. Now combining the two like you mentioned would indeed make an incredibly quick spooling turbo, but it would defeat what is, in my opinion, the best part about these turbo's. Low price. They are so cheap not from the factory, but surplus on eBay. They come in a myriad of Semi-trucks and buses, and make their way to eBay all the time, never being installed. I got my HX40 used for $200, and my buddy got his HX52 new from eBay for $450 plus shipping to Okinawa. I've got many more examples, but get on American eBay and search "Holset". You'll see.
The one downside you brought up I can agree with is the frame/overall size and weight of these things. They are BIG. Compare my HX40 next to a GT35r and it dwarfs the garrett. It does as I mentioned however, outspool and outflow the Garrett.
